Original Message Date: 12 Mar 92 08:33:00
From: Jack Decker on 1:154/8
To: Tom Jennings on 1:125/111
Subj: CC: of Policy Complaint against Steve Winter - NOT FORچ
PUBLICATION!
* Message Forwarded by Ned 2.00 *
Original From: Jack Decker on 154/8
To: Tom Faulkner on 3641/0
Subject: Policy Complaint against Steve Winter
cc: Tom Jennings, 1:125/111 (FYI only, NOT for publication!)
Message #50, Area "NetMail"
From: Steve Winter
To: Jack Decker 06 Mar 92 14:32:47
Subject: False christian post
MSGID: 1:3641/238 210e7bbc
PID: FM+ 2.1
I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in the چ
recent FidoNews. I can certainly understand why false christian filthچ
are offended by the truth that exposes them as deceiving scum. Yourچ
cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of God.
-=( A BASIC DEFECTIVE PREMISE OF THE FALSE CHRISTIAN CULTS )=-
The "believe only" cults are basing their salvation upon the defective چ
premise that the early Christians to whom the original epistles were
addressed, "believed" the apostles, but hadn't obey them. Then they
are also building upon their defective premise that the apostles
accepted as "brethern" folks who refused to obey them.
Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of
Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why obedianceچ
to Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptively ignoreچ
the fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were thoseچ
who
had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation.
Unless a person BECOMES a Christian, they are NOT even the individuals چ
that epistles containing the benevolent promises are addressed to It'sچ
as if they are holding a promisary note that is addressed to someone
else. They rejoice about its promised value (which is real), butچ
don't realize that it's not addressed to them. The benevolentچ
promises of
God are only for those who OBEY Him.
A brief glance at just a couple of scriptures serves to expose the
majority of these cultists.
True preachers teach why the Bible needs to be obeyed, while the
Satanic cultists "proclaim" their "salvation without obediance".
The book of Romans shows that a "non-believer" was recognized by
"lack of obediance" to the original Apostolic message (Acts 2:38)
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaiasچ
saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Deceivers often take verses from Ephsians (a letter to the CHURCH at
Ephesus), and ignore the fact that the Ephesian Church was FOUNDEDچ
upon the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. The membership of the Ephesianچ
Church had ALLREADY OBEYED Acts 2:38.
Notice carefully the founding of the Ephesian church and pay careful
attention to Paul adhering faithfully to the Acts 2:38 plan evenچ
though John the Baptist had allready baptised those individuals.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth,چ
Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: andچ
finding
certain disciples,
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye چ
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether چ
there be any Holy Ghost.
Here also is clear proof in verse 2 that a person doesn't receive theچ
Holy Ghost just because they "believe". The "believe only" cultists
will often teach that lie.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? Andچ
they said, Unto John's baptism.
When Paul saw that they had not received the Spirit (of Christ), he
questioned the validity of their baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him
which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Believers were/are ALWAYS obeyers.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of
the Lord Jesus.
Folks who had been baptised by John the Baptist himself had
to be RE-Baptised in Jesus name in order to become Christians.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost چ
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
After obeying Christian baptism they did receive the same Spirit ofچ
Christ that the Apostles had received in Acts 2:4.
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Message #128, Area "NetMail"
From: MBounce V1.00
To: Jack Decker 10 Mar 92 18:14:38
Subject: Message Returned To Sender.
MSGID: 1:3641/238.0 29bd4404
The following message was refused at the above address:
چ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ چ
On: 07 Mar 92 10:36:00
By: Jack Decker, 154/8
To: Steve Winter, 3641/238
Re: Re: False christian post
چ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ چ
SW> I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in
SW> the recent FidoNews. I can certainly understand why false
SW> christian filth are offended by the truth that exposes them as
SW> deceiving scum. Your cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of
SW> God.
Steve, you've lost it totally. I don't know what kind of teachingچ
you've been sitting under, or if you just came up with all of this onچ
your own, but it's going to be death to you. What happened to "judgeچ
not lest ye be judged" in your theology? What about the greatestچ
commandment (love)? What about Roman chapter 14 (please read it)?
Steve, what do you do with Ephesians 2:8-9? You must really hateچ
those two verses, because they destroy the very core of yourچ
"salvation by works" theology.
SW> Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of
SW> Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them whyچ
obediance
SW> to Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptivelyچ
ignore the
SW> fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were thoseچ
who
SW> had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation.
Steve, have you taken a pair of scissors and cut all of Paul'sچ
writings out of your Bible? You are confusing something that wasچ
said to a particular group of people at a certain time, as aچ
universal command for everyone. But even if you believe that this isچ
a universal command, why do you place so much emphasis on the baptismچ
(which is only an outward sign) and very little on "repentance".چ
However, it appears you are basing an entire theology on a fewچ
verses. If you are sincerely interested in "rightly dividing theچ
word", then perhaps you should take a concordance and look up theچ
references to "grace". What is grace? To whom does the grace of Godچ
apply?
You probably get mad when folks say that the gifts of God passed awayچ
in the first century (I don't believe that either), but in yourچ
theology you seem to think that God's grace doesn't apply to thoseچ
who profess to be believers. It's as though once you claim to be aچ
believer, God doesn't give you any more breaks.
I can guarantee you that without the Grace of God and the salvation چ
provided by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, I will never have eternalچ
life, and neither will you. I am totally incapable of living aچ
perfect life. Neither have you, apparently (you've broken at leastچ
one direct command of Jesus in your message to me).
You say that the promises of God are only for those who obey. If youچ
are judged by the same measure with which you judge others, as theچ
scriptures state, then if you fail to obey at any point you will haveچ
lost your
salvation, because that is how you are judging others. That's pretty چ
heavy.
Steve, I can understand where you are coming from because I have چ
perfectionist tendencies, as I imagine you do also. When I look atچ
your posts, I see what I might have become if God hadn't led me toچ
Romans 14 and a few other scriptures that point out the utterچ
futility of basing one's salvation on works. Either Ephesians 2:8-9چ
is true, or God is a liar, and I choose to believe that God wasn'tچ
lying when he inspired Paul to write those verses.
I should point out that I believe in the baptism of believers, Iچ
believe in the gift of tongues, I believe that God still heals andچ
performs miracles. But I don't believe that any of these externalچ
works take precedence over God's soverign grace. I can understandچ
that some believers may read the Bible and come to the conclusionچ
that these things are necessary for THEIR
salvation, and I don't fault them for that. It's when they startچ
saying that EVERY believer must go and do likewise that I have aچ
problem. God often asks individual believers to do certian thingsچ
that are not required of EVERY believer. God knows that we are allچ
different, and he doesn't give any of us more than we can handle atچ
one time. I wish you'd at least have enough respect for otherچ
believers to allow that they might not have received the sameچ
"enlightenment" from God as you have, and not be quite so quick toچ
jump into judgement mode.
If I were you, my greatest fear would be of getting to the gates ofچ
heaven and finding someone who is as much a perfectionist as youچ
guarding the entrance. In any case, if by some chance I don't make itچ
to heaven (and if Ephesians 2:8-9 is true, then I *will* make it), Iچ
don't think it will be because Steve Winter damned me as "falseچ
christian filth."
Jack
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